Saturday, July 31, 2004
The Many Deceits of Dave Kopel (47-59+)
OK, let's get this over with. Fahrenheit is old news and I want to get back to some sports and Mariners and holy-cow-how-did-Bill-Bavasi-get-nothing-done commentary. For starters (and if you have more time than you know what to do with) see how it all started, as well as 1-15, 16-31, and 32-46. Or, don't. Also, I mentioned at the end of the last section that Kopel edited his "deceits," resulting in my numbering being off by one for a portion of these. Sorry, but I'm not changing mine.
Deceit 47
Kopel again quotes Slate's Christopher Hitchens. There are a few points in the quote, and it is not evident what Kopel feels is a deceit. The most prominent part of the quote deals with whether or not Moore is a pacifist, and that Moore presents the Iraqi insurgents as justifiably outraged, though the record of the regime’s war crimes goes unmentioned. Hmm, what to do with this one. Whether Moore is or is not a pacifist is unimportant, discussing the insurgents’ justifiability is not deceptive, and ignoring the regime’s crimes was an earlier deceit. -1
Deceit 48
Again, a two part deceit, half a point for each. First, Moore mocks the “coalition of the willing,” only mentioning in Fahrenheit a few small countries that joined, leaving out England, Italy, etc. Moore defends this by saying it is a counterbalance to the “Big Lie” about the coalition spread by the administration and the mass media. Kopel argues that it is also a lie just to mention the small countries. Yes and no. It is, by the same token, a lie, but it also is important to show that when the administration brags about a large, worldwide coalition, they are including many nations like Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and Macedonia. After the U.S, U.K., Italy, and Poland, there are mostly small countries (and a very large country, Australia, contributing 800 troops) -.25
Next, Kopel discusses footage in the film of a military burial and an interview with a wounded soldier. It is not clear if the footage was legally obtained. The legal issue hurts Moore as a filmmaker, but does not subtract any of the meaning from these scenes in the documentary. -.5
Deceit 49
Kopel, and his quote from Debbie Shlussel, argues that Moore distorts clips to claim that the media supports Bush and all his designs. However, that is not what this segment of Fahrenheit does. Moore showed that the media was soft on Bush during the time after 9/11 and the beginning of the Iraq war, which is true. He shows a clip of either Dan Rather or Ted Koppel, I don’t remember, saying that sure, of course there was a pro-US bias. -1
“Bonus Deceit”
Kopel interjects a deceit that is for some reason not numbered. The film shows soldiers supposedly making fun of a corpse or detainee with an erection. However, Moore admitted that it was actually a drunk man who had passed out. -0
Deceits 50-52
Moore mangles numbers and logic in a segment about military pay and health care. Read Kopel for details. -0
Deceits 53
Moore claims only one son or daughter of a congressman is in Iraq. While true at the time of the article he cites in May of 2003, this is now false. There are 2 (sons of Sen. Tim Johnson and Rep. Duncan Hunter), though by Moore’s wording only Johnson’s son counts (see Kopel), and the son of Sen. Joseph Biden is on active duty, though not in Iraq. In total, seven members of Congress have children in the military. -0
Deceit 54
Moore selectively and deceptively edits the scene in which he asks Rep. Mark Kennedy to enlist his son in the military. He makes Rep. Kennedy look like an idiot as he responds with a blank stare to Moore’s inquiries. However, according to the transcript, the exchange went like this:
Moore: Is there any way you could help me with that?
Kennedy: How would I help you?
Moore: Pass it out to other members of Congress.
Kennedy: I’d be happy to — especially those who voted for the war. I have a nephew on his way to Afghanistan.
That is disgraceful. -0
Deceit 55
Moore shows Rep. Michael Castle waving him off while on the phone, avoiding Moore during his attempts to get congressmen to enlist their children. Castle, however, does not have any children. The point remains that congressmen were not interested in Moore’s attempt to point out the lack of congressional children serving in Iraq, enlist them, and pass out materials around congress (as Rep. Kennedy was happy to do). -.5
Deceit 56
Kopel argues that Moore creates the “false impression that Congressional families are especially unlikely to serve in Iraq.” No, not really. He creates the impression that there are very few congressional family members in Iraq, which is true. Also, Kopel shows how a congressional household is a bit more likely to have a child serve in Iraq. However, the point is that these are the people who made the decision to invade Iraq. Moore argues that they should be more willing than most Americans to send their children into battle, as they are responsible for sending all who are there. -1
Deceit 56.5?
An extra deceit with no number and two parts. First, Moore uses extensive footage of Lila Lipscomb, who formerly supported the war, lost a son in Iraq, and now opposes the war. Kopel says it is unfair to only show her and not other families who still support the war despite losing family members. Moore never made the claim or even gave the impression that all military families who have suffered losses are opposed to the war. It is Kopel who is deceitful here, insisting that Moore does so. -1
Next, Kopel criticizes Moore for saying that African-Americans disproportionately enlist in the military, though he says Moore is right. He explains, however, that they do not suffer disproportionate casualties in Iraq. So? Did Moore say this? He did, however, give the impression that blacks are bearing the burden of, including dying for, this war. I guess I’ll add some points back, since this is not numbered. -.5
Deceit 57
Again, two parts. The first is silly. Moore says he grew up in Flint, when he actually lived in a suburb, though his father and grandfather worked at a General Motors plant in industrial Flint. This is a petty complaint by Kopel. I grew up in a suburb of Seattle, but refer to Seattle as my hometown, and, if I made a documentary that included Seattle, I would have no problem saying that is where I grew up. I did. I may have gone to bed and to school in a suburb, but I grew up in the parks and markets, stores and stadiums of Seattle. -.5
The second part deals with the unemployment figures cited by Mrs. Lipscomb in Fahrenheit. Her statements about how the rates are figured are inaccurate, but the numbers given by Moore are correct. -.25
“Bonus Deceit,” McDermott edition
Moore uses an interview with Seattle Rep. Jim McDermott. Kopel tries to discredit McDermott, which does not matter. McDermott did, however, misspeak when discussing the use of the terror levels, saying it went from orange up to red and back to orange. It has never been to red. But McDermott’s point was not about specific levels, rather the use and power of fear. His point remains. Kopel calls it a deceit when Moore gets his facts right but the message wrong, and here McDermott gets the message right but a small fact wrong. -1
“Bonus Deceit,” Famous Musician Edition
Moore show a clip of Britney Spears saying we should all support the President in everything he does and have faith in him. Kopel says this is deceitful because it is one-sided. I say Kopel needs to laugh from time to time.
Also, Kopel picks on a Moore lie about music in the movie. Moore says Peter Towhnshend wouldn’t let him use the song “Won’t Get Fooled Again,” while Townshend says he changed his mind at the last minute and gave Moore permission. This is completely irrelevant to the veracity of the documentary. -1
“Double Bonus Deceit,” Tom Daschle Edition
Moore lies, or Daschle does, about meeting Tom Daschle. Outside the movie and irrelevant. Kopel is supposedly writing about the deceits of Fahrenheit 9/11, not the deceits of Michael Moore. -1
“Triple Bonus Deceit,” Return of the Jedi Edition
Moore boasts that Fahrenheit’s opening weekend beat that of RotJ. It only beat the re-release opening weekend, not the 1983 one. -0
Deceit 58
Moore claims to support our troops, but actually supports the enemy! He compares the Iraqi fighters to the Minutemen and thinks they will win. There are many opinions about the insurgents, mostly patriotic drivel calling them enemies, though they are enemies because we decided to invade their country without provocation. Does this mean I want them to win? Would I compare them to revolutionaries and our own minutemen? No. Does this make Fahrenheit a grand deceit. Not at all. -1
Deceit 59
Terrorists support Fahrenheit! Moore’s Middle East distributor is getting aid by organizations related to Hezbollah, in order to avoid a boycott of the film in Lebanon. This certainly is not something of which to be proud, but it in no way effects the authenticity of the film. -1
Kopel concludes with a dizzying array of inflammatory quotes and logical leaps to imply that Moore goes to bed every night praying for the slaughter of American troops and the destruction of our democracy. Kopel should be ashamed of the work he has done here. Even more so because I just spent days refuting him, when, if he had just realized he was mostly full of empty, whiny complaints, I could have spent the time playing video games.
There are 20 listed "deceits here," despite Kopel' brilliant numbering system. For this section, Kopel only loses 11.5. The grand tally for all of Kopel's "deceits" in Fahrenheit 9/11 comes to 26.05 out of 66. Michael Moore could have made a strong, error free film that was still able to criticize the administration and raise important issues for debate. However, his penchant for slick editing got the best of him on certain occasions. While there is still plenty worthwhile commentary in Fahrenheit, these tactics left Moore and his film vulnerable to the petty attacks that go beyond his mistakes in an effort to discredit the entire film. Kopel and others have seized on this opportunity, seemingly convincing many people to ignore the film, making them believe - without understanding and knowing what is actually in the film - that there is no substantial truth to any point raised by Moore. They have largely succeeded in silencing what could have been a great national debate over the actions of this administration, and should be hung for treason for violating the spirit of the First Amendment.
Deceit 47
Kopel again quotes Slate's Christopher Hitchens. There are a few points in the quote, and it is not evident what Kopel feels is a deceit. The most prominent part of the quote deals with whether or not Moore is a pacifist, and that Moore presents the Iraqi insurgents as justifiably outraged, though the record of the regime’s war crimes goes unmentioned. Hmm, what to do with this one. Whether Moore is or is not a pacifist is unimportant, discussing the insurgents’ justifiability is not deceptive, and ignoring the regime’s crimes was an earlier deceit. -1
Deceit 48
Again, a two part deceit, half a point for each. First, Moore mocks the “coalition of the willing,” only mentioning in Fahrenheit a few small countries that joined, leaving out England, Italy, etc. Moore defends this by saying it is a counterbalance to the “Big Lie” about the coalition spread by the administration and the mass media. Kopel argues that it is also a lie just to mention the small countries. Yes and no. It is, by the same token, a lie, but it also is important to show that when the administration brags about a large, worldwide coalition, they are including many nations like Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and Macedonia. After the U.S, U.K., Italy, and Poland, there are mostly small countries (and a very large country, Australia, contributing 800 troops) -.25
Next, Kopel discusses footage in the film of a military burial and an interview with a wounded soldier. It is not clear if the footage was legally obtained. The legal issue hurts Moore as a filmmaker, but does not subtract any of the meaning from these scenes in the documentary. -.5
Deceit 49
Kopel, and his quote from Debbie Shlussel, argues that Moore distorts clips to claim that the media supports Bush and all his designs. However, that is not what this segment of Fahrenheit does. Moore showed that the media was soft on Bush during the time after 9/11 and the beginning of the Iraq war, which is true. He shows a clip of either Dan Rather or Ted Koppel, I don’t remember, saying that sure, of course there was a pro-US bias. -1
“Bonus Deceit”
Kopel interjects a deceit that is for some reason not numbered. The film shows soldiers supposedly making fun of a corpse or detainee with an erection. However, Moore admitted that it was actually a drunk man who had passed out. -0
Deceits 50-52
Moore mangles numbers and logic in a segment about military pay and health care. Read Kopel for details. -0
Deceits 53
Moore claims only one son or daughter of a congressman is in Iraq. While true at the time of the article he cites in May of 2003, this is now false. There are 2 (sons of Sen. Tim Johnson and Rep. Duncan Hunter), though by Moore’s wording only Johnson’s son counts (see Kopel), and the son of Sen. Joseph Biden is on active duty, though not in Iraq. In total, seven members of Congress have children in the military. -0
Deceit 54
Moore selectively and deceptively edits the scene in which he asks Rep. Mark Kennedy to enlist his son in the military. He makes Rep. Kennedy look like an idiot as he responds with a blank stare to Moore’s inquiries. However, according to the transcript, the exchange went like this:
Moore: Is there any way you could help me with that?
Kennedy: How would I help you?
Moore: Pass it out to other members of Congress.
Kennedy: I’d be happy to — especially those who voted for the war. I have a nephew on his way to Afghanistan.
That is disgraceful. -0
Deceit 55
Moore shows Rep. Michael Castle waving him off while on the phone, avoiding Moore during his attempts to get congressmen to enlist their children. Castle, however, does not have any children. The point remains that congressmen were not interested in Moore’s attempt to point out the lack of congressional children serving in Iraq, enlist them, and pass out materials around congress (as Rep. Kennedy was happy to do). -.5
Deceit 56
Kopel argues that Moore creates the “false impression that Congressional families are especially unlikely to serve in Iraq.” No, not really. He creates the impression that there are very few congressional family members in Iraq, which is true. Also, Kopel shows how a congressional household is a bit more likely to have a child serve in Iraq. However, the point is that these are the people who made the decision to invade Iraq. Moore argues that they should be more willing than most Americans to send their children into battle, as they are responsible for sending all who are there. -1
Deceit 56.5?
An extra deceit with no number and two parts. First, Moore uses extensive footage of Lila Lipscomb, who formerly supported the war, lost a son in Iraq, and now opposes the war. Kopel says it is unfair to only show her and not other families who still support the war despite losing family members. Moore never made the claim or even gave the impression that all military families who have suffered losses are opposed to the war. It is Kopel who is deceitful here, insisting that Moore does so. -1
Next, Kopel criticizes Moore for saying that African-Americans disproportionately enlist in the military, though he says Moore is right. He explains, however, that they do not suffer disproportionate casualties in Iraq. So? Did Moore say this? He did, however, give the impression that blacks are bearing the burden of, including dying for, this war. I guess I’ll add some points back, since this is not numbered. -.5
Deceit 57
Again, two parts. The first is silly. Moore says he grew up in Flint, when he actually lived in a suburb, though his father and grandfather worked at a General Motors plant in industrial Flint. This is a petty complaint by Kopel. I grew up in a suburb of Seattle, but refer to Seattle as my hometown, and, if I made a documentary that included Seattle, I would have no problem saying that is where I grew up. I did. I may have gone to bed and to school in a suburb, but I grew up in the parks and markets, stores and stadiums of Seattle. -.5
The second part deals with the unemployment figures cited by Mrs. Lipscomb in Fahrenheit. Her statements about how the rates are figured are inaccurate, but the numbers given by Moore are correct. -.25
“Bonus Deceit,” McDermott edition
Moore uses an interview with Seattle Rep. Jim McDermott. Kopel tries to discredit McDermott, which does not matter. McDermott did, however, misspeak when discussing the use of the terror levels, saying it went from orange up to red and back to orange. It has never been to red. But McDermott’s point was not about specific levels, rather the use and power of fear. His point remains. Kopel calls it a deceit when Moore gets his facts right but the message wrong, and here McDermott gets the message right but a small fact wrong. -1
“Bonus Deceit,” Famous Musician Edition
Moore show a clip of Britney Spears saying we should all support the President in everything he does and have faith in him. Kopel says this is deceitful because it is one-sided. I say Kopel needs to laugh from time to time.
Also, Kopel picks on a Moore lie about music in the movie. Moore says Peter Towhnshend wouldn’t let him use the song “Won’t Get Fooled Again,” while Townshend says he changed his mind at the last minute and gave Moore permission. This is completely irrelevant to the veracity of the documentary. -1
“Double Bonus Deceit,” Tom Daschle Edition
Moore lies, or Daschle does, about meeting Tom Daschle. Outside the movie and irrelevant. Kopel is supposedly writing about the deceits of Fahrenheit 9/11, not the deceits of Michael Moore. -1
“Triple Bonus Deceit,” Return of the Jedi Edition
Moore boasts that Fahrenheit’s opening weekend beat that of RotJ. It only beat the re-release opening weekend, not the 1983 one. -0
Deceit 58
Moore claims to support our troops, but actually supports the enemy! He compares the Iraqi fighters to the Minutemen and thinks they will win. There are many opinions about the insurgents, mostly patriotic drivel calling them enemies, though they are enemies because we decided to invade their country without provocation. Does this mean I want them to win? Would I compare them to revolutionaries and our own minutemen? No. Does this make Fahrenheit a grand deceit. Not at all. -1
Deceit 59
Terrorists support Fahrenheit! Moore’s Middle East distributor is getting aid by organizations related to Hezbollah, in order to avoid a boycott of the film in Lebanon. This certainly is not something of which to be proud, but it in no way effects the authenticity of the film. -1
Kopel concludes with a dizzying array of inflammatory quotes and logical leaps to imply that Moore goes to bed every night praying for the slaughter of American troops and the destruction of our democracy. Kopel should be ashamed of the work he has done here. Even more so because I just spent days refuting him, when, if he had just realized he was mostly full of empty, whiny complaints, I could have spent the time playing video games.
There are 20 listed "deceits here," despite Kopel' brilliant numbering system. For this section, Kopel only loses 11.5. The grand tally for all of Kopel's "deceits" in Fahrenheit 9/11 comes to 26.05 out of 66. Michael Moore could have made a strong, error free film that was still able to criticize the administration and raise important issues for debate. However, his penchant for slick editing got the best of him on certain occasions. While there is still plenty worthwhile commentary in Fahrenheit, these tactics left Moore and his film vulnerable to the petty attacks that go beyond his mistakes in an effort to discredit the entire film. Kopel and others have seized on this opportunity, seemingly convincing many people to ignore the film, making them believe - without understanding and knowing what is actually in the film - that there is no substantial truth to any point raised by Moore. They have largely succeeded in silencing what could have been a great national debate over the actions of this administration, and should be hung for treason for violating the spirit of the First Amendment.
# posted by Anonymous @ 10:58 PM 
