Your Thoughts Exactly: Islam

Monday, April 24, 2006

 

Islam

Stuart and I got into a debate a few days ago about ideologies, sparked by his assertion, that the Islamic religion itself is inherently causes violence and oppression as a result of the natural implementation of the precepts of the ideology, (or something like that, I will let K clarify on his own.) What really irked me was his assertion that Islam was in some way more of an instigator of violence and therefore in some way “eviler,” than Christianity.

There are two ways to settle this debate, one is to go into a debate of the principles of the major religions and come to a conclusion as to whether or not one or the other has some moral high ground on the others. This is a personal choice however, one which in a society of free religion, we all should get to make, and respect that of the other, (ideally, I will admit this does not happen.) I believe this to be a fruitless exercise, because individuals are the one’s who end up making the decision as to how they are going to interpret how their religious choice (or lack there of) will affect their lives. In any religion, one can make the choice to practice in peace, to show devotion to principles of equality and non-violence, or make the choice to be exclusionary and violent towards those who do not share the same beliefs and practices as themselves. Unfortunately, one of the many dark truths about all religions is that people often make the latter choice.

Islam is getting a very bad rap right now; if open-minded religious skeptics like Stu are questioning its inherent values or viewing it as flawed I shudder to think what the Jesus freaks in the White House are saying to each other after morning Bible study. Following 9/11, it was easy to dismiss Al Qaeda as a bunch of wackos: but nowadays we are seeing a global rise in power of Muslim fundamentalists into positions of political power. Ahminehjad’s rise in Iran and Hamas’ electoral victory have both enhancedthe visibility of the right-wing hard-liner Muslims.

This isn’t the first time fundamentalists of an ideology have risen to power. The Nazis were what I would call “Nationalist Radical Fundamentalists,” they embraced the ideology of nationalism and took it to extremely radical conclusions, which included the deification of the Aryan super-race, the extermination of Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, communists and other undesirables (with the Slavs probably being next in line,) and attempting to set up the Third Reich throughout Europe. What would the U.S. look like if elements of the Christian right got their hands on the instruments of power? I do not know to what level there would be a crackdown on civil liberties, but I hope I never get to find out.

The more important question, in my mind, is what causes such fundamentalist organizations to rise to power. Hitler was elected. Hamas was elected. The revolution of 1979 in Iran was a popular one overthrowing a US-supported Monarch, and Ahminehjad was elected and draws much of his support from Iran’s young, supposedly reformist population. Without the consent of the populations, these people could not rule. What makes these alternatives viable?

Fundamentalist ideologues seem to rise to power following a period of desperation, oppression, and economic suffering. The major examples of the 20th century are the rise of Lenin in Russia, Mao in China, and Hitler in Germany. Germany after World War One and the Great Depression was in total disarray, the mark devalued, billions in reparations owed to France and Great Britain due to the Treaty of Versailles. Lenin took the work of Marx and applied it to overthrow the Tsar who had only recently moved out of the serf-based economy.

So why are people in Iran and Palestine turning to more right-wing fundamentalists? What do they represent? Perhaps they offer a chance to return to an idealized past, the Persian Empire in the case of Iran, or the caliphate in the case of the PLO.

But really I think it comes down to the effect that outside states, especially the U.S. have had on the region. When faced by constant pressure from the outside, peoples tend to turn inward, to those who will defend their people’s and won’t back down in any way to the invading outsiders. If I am a Palestinian I know that Hamas will not back down to Israel. If I am Iranian, it’s nice to hear someone not backing down from the U.S., especially if that leader also has not curtailed our social freedoms.

These leaders are running on the same ideas as the Republican Party. The duality of right and wrong, and the fear of the outsider. The need to “show strength,” and saber-rattle (or invade another country.) The politics of fear are now being used by both sides. And just like I don’t believe for a second that George Bush and the Iraq war represent American, liberal, or my values, I don’t believe that Hamas or Iran represent those of Islam.


Comments:
Interesting post and a good call to caution before attempting to "judge" Islam, but this says nothing about whether Islam is, as Stu says, a religion that causes violence. If Stu asserted this based on the current clashes and tensions, then you refuted responded on the appropriate level. If, on the other hand, his argument was based on fundamental tenets and teachings of Islam, you did nothing to counter his claim. I would be interested to hear S.Lim's reasoning.

Writing off this second mode of analysis as a fruitless exercise is way too dismissive. It may have nothing to do with what people of varios religions have done, either in the name of their god/faith or not. For example, consider imaginary Religions X and Y.

In the main text of Religion X, we find: "The following tenets must be observed, and must be observed by all people on Earth. It is your affirmative duty to ensure that people accept and live by this tenet, and to ensure that there are no persons left in the world that refuse to do so."

In the text of Religion Y's textual authority, we read: "This faith is voluntary. Those who come to it on their own volition will enjoy a splendid afterlife in eternal glory, but those who choose other paths are our friends and may reach their own ends by their own means."

I think you can reasonably and realistically make a claim that Religion X inherently causes violence and oppression moreso than Religion Y.

Extreme examples, yes, but this is just to show that the debate can be completely alienated from individual decisions and personal choices. You effectively argued the side involving choice and global and local context, but the other side of the argument can be held on the merits.
 
No I think writing of this analysis is pretty easy to tell you the truth. Because religion isn't like law: you can't just read into the text and interpert them as you see fit. (especially when such text have already been translated once.)

Or you can I guess, nothing is stopping you. But understanding the meaning of a religion involves other parts than texts, rituals, practices, important holidays, interaction with other members of your creed, some sort of relationship with a spiritual leader. Cherry-picking lines of texts (especially when I am sure these texts have lines that contradict themselves,) and then ranking the religions based on how they meet with your morals is dangerous, because if you start viewing conflicts through this lense you limit your ability to come up with solutions for people of all religions to live together in a peaceful society.

But Stu if you want to construct an argument on Islam's tenents that's cool, I'd be interested to see it.
 
I'm just pointing out that it is quite possible to do this. It may require no interpretatin at all - things can be quite clear.

There could be some religions that are perfectly clear - beyond what choices people of those faiths have said and done - that they are incompatible with other religions and the world must be cleansed of those religions. I'm not saying that we are talking about those religions, or that they in fact do exist; I am just saying that you can't dismiss the possibility without a knowledge of the teachings of the religion you are discussing.

I wouldn't say that we should view conflicts through an approach that sees fault in everything that doesn't fit "our" morals, but I would say that we can accurately call one religion more inherently violent and conflict-prone than another.
 
Read the post and the exchange of comments with great interest. Such views are refreshingly different in the clamor that exists in the blogosphere.
 
I would also like to say that if George Bush doesn't represent American values, then we actually have no ground to argue over at all.

As much as it sucks to have him as our President, he does speak for America the entity, just as the Pope speaks for Christianity and the clerics speak for Islam. They may not represent any one person, but they do indeed represent the trends and they do impact the big picture.

I think it's clear that America and its values have become worse because of the past 6 years. In fact I'd say this is a very good analogy, because though I still like America, it's worse than it was 6 years ago in terms of values.

To go with the SAT syntax,
America:Islam :: Americans:Muslims
 
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